Discussion for Driver: San Francisco (2011)
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By k9Underdogg
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#50840
First of all, I'm not sure if Tanner's name had been stated before in the series. If it hadn't before GTA Vice City came out, I was wondering what do you guys think of Tanner being officially named John. You know there was a character that appeared briefly on a mission in Vice City (and GTA3) called "Dick Tanner", obviously as a joke and parody of Tanner from Driver. So my guess is that when they made Driver San Francisco they named him John just to make it clear that his name is NOT Dick.
Well, I personally think it would have been way cool if the official Tanner from Driver was called Richard (the name that's usually nicknamed "Dick") instead of John. I mean I think UbiSoft / Reflections should have played along with GTA's joke, it would have shown more guts if they did than just naming him "John". What do you guys think?
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By Olanov
#50843
I really doubt the fact they made a joke in GTA and named him Dick Tanner contributed to actually naming him John Tanner in DSF. It really felt like a logical decision, giving the character a little more believeability and backstory.
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By Coyote
#50845
Olanov wrote:I really doubt the fact they made a joke in GTA and named him Dick Tanner contributed to actually naming him John Tanner in DSF. It really felt like a logical decision, giving the character a little more believeability and backstory.
Yes, I highly doubt it has to do with GTA. Vice City and GTA 3 are 12 and 11 years old now, that’s long forgotten if there was a “Dick Tanner” or not in there.

I first thought first names were kind of more important, because they call him John instead of Tanner most of the time in the game, but if you look at other characters… they don’t say Tobias to Jones or Charles to Jericho.
So my thought is that “Tanner” simply wasn’t cool enough for the new modern kids. Perhaps it also sounded dated?
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By 0takumetalhead
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#50858
Eh, i'm indiffirent about Tanner's first name being revealed, he hardly felt the same Tanner I liked alot in D1/D2 though.
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By TheEngiGuy
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#50859
Coyote wrote: So my thought is that “Tanner” simply wasn’t cool enough for the new modern kids. Perhaps it also sounded dated?
I hate when they change things based on the current masses.
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By Fab2cent
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#50861
i liked just calling him tanner.....i felt like john was a bit pointless to be honest
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By Coyote
#50865
0takumetalhead wrote:Eh, i'm indiffirent about Tanner's first name being revealed, he hardly felt the same Tanner I liked alot in D1/D2 though.
Well, between Driver 1 and 2 he already changed so much, he was basically already talking to much in Driver 2 and had a different voice and a different face.

So obviously when he changes all the time it will never be exactly the *same* Tanner.
But he’s a bit like James Bond. Driver is a movie and the Tanner you see in the game is just an actor. Tanner is meant to be an iconic personality, he’s simply *the* Driver.
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By Fireboyd78
#50868
The one thing that made Tanner a good name was the fact it could've been both a surname and given name. When someone called him Tanner, that could've very well been his first name. I remember rumors that his name was Tanner Maverick - not exactly a 'cool' name but it's still a valid name. Then there was the Bruce Tanner rumor, which was a much better name in my opinion.

In the end, John Tanner is a decent name. But I wish they would've still referred to him as just Tanner...but making the game more available really killed his character. I don't know how Martin Edmondson was okay with completely changing Tanner's character, that, at one point, was played by Michael f***ing Madsen. DRIV3R was the epitome of Tanner's character, but DSF was like a cheesy reboot of the game. Chances are, we won't be seeing Tanner ever again.
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By 0takumetalhead
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#50873
Coyote wrote:
0takumetalhead wrote:Eh, i'm indiffirent about Tanner's first name being revealed, he hardly felt the same Tanner I liked alot in D1/D2 though.
Well, between Driver 1 and 2 he already changed so much, he was basically already talking to much in Driver 2 and had a different voice and a different face.

So obviously when he changes all the time it will never be exactly the *same* Tanner.
But he’s a bit like James Bond. Driver is a movie and the Tanner you see in the game is just an actor. Tanner is meant to be an iconic personality, he’s simply *the* Driver.
He did feel like the same person in the first 3 Driver games, dispite his slight personality change and awkward look in D3.
And Bond's character never changes honestly, while a whole bunch of diffirent actors portray this fictional agent the personality is always the same. Always the same pussy chasing fella ready to save the world while still being polite. Tanner in DSF however feels like a total diffirent person while it is supposed to be the same Tanner as in the earlier games. DSF isn't bad by any means but the personality shift is grating.
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By TheEngiGuy
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#50875
0takumetalhead wrote:
Coyote wrote:
0takumetalhead wrote:Tanner in DSF however feels like a total diffirent person while it is supposed to be the same Tanner as in the earlier games. DSF isn't bad by any means but the personality shift is grating.
One of the reasons why I take DSF as a spin-off of the series. Because this game alone is very cool, the connection between this and earlier games is just odd.
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By Coyote
#50877
Well, it’s more “Driver” than any other Driver of the series. None of the “muscle cars” in earlier Driver games really drive like muscle cars, and you just don’t have that movie chase scene feeling like in DSF. Then if you’re going to look at Tanner, obviously it’s all far apart from the last Driver with Tanner, which was Driver 3.
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By 0takumetalhead
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#50879
Coyote wrote:Well, it’s more “Driver” than any other Driver of the series. None of the “muscle cars” in earlier Driver games really drive like muscle cars, and you just don’t have that movie chase scene feeling like in DSF. Then if you’re going to look at Tanner, obviously it’s all far apart from the last Driver with Tanner, which was Driver 3.
Turn of auto-handbrake in D1 and you'll speak diffirent about it.
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By Olanov
#50880
Coyote wrote:...and you just don’t have that movie chase scene feeling like in DSF.
Now that is entirely subjective. For instance, I think there's a lot of movie chase scene feel to them, maybe a bit on the cheesy side but still. Really a lot with what PS1-PS2 could manage. Especially Stuntman-engine era Drivers. DSF however succeeded far more effectively with it, having a lot of filters playing through it (on the consoles) and in film director too. Not to mention real licensed cars and all that, updated visuals.
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By max.thunder
#50881
CarLuver69 wrote:The one thing that made Tanner a good name was the fact it could've been both a surname and given name. When someone called him Tanner, that could've very well been his first name. I remember rumors that his name was Tanner Maverick - not exactly a 'cool' name but it's still a valid name. Then there was the Bruce Tanner rumor, which was a much better name in my opinion.

In the end, John Tanner is a decent name. But I wish they would've still referred to him as just Tanner...but making the game more available really killed his character. I don't know how Martin Edmondson was okay with completely changing Tanner's character, that, at one point, was played by Michael f***ing Madsen. DRIV3R was the epitome of Tanner's character, but DSF was like a cheesy reboot of the game. Chances are, we won't be seeing Tanner ever again.
Totally agree with you (Y) . That's why i want the dark and gritty tone return again. It was the main reason because i liked Driver series.
TheEngiGuy wrote:
0takumetalhead wrote:
Coyote wrote:
0takumetalhead wrote:Tanner in DSF however feels like a total diffirent person while it is supposed to be the same Tanner as in the earlier games. DSF isn't bad by any means but the personality shift is grating.
One of the reasons why I take DSF as a spin-off of the series. Because this game alone is very cool, the connection between this and earlier games is just odd.
Yeah, it can be considered as a effort to see how people would react to the comeback of Driver series and including innovative elements.
Coyote wrote:Well, it’s more “Driver” than any other Driver of the series. None of the “muscle cars” in earlier Driver games really drive like muscle cars, and you just don’t have that movie chase scene feeling like in DSF. Then if you’re going to look at Tanner, obviously it’s all far apart from the last Driver with Tanner, which was Driver 3.
I disagree, DSF maybe has very polished driving physics but the landscape to use it was a little misused, i doesn't say that SF is bad but they way it was portrayed could be way better, for example DPL achieved that movie chase scene feeling because of tighter roads, alleways with trash, high traffic density and old style cop AI despite of having a worse handling (D1 to DPL, you know probably what i mean about cop AI). Driver SF had way too wide roads.
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By Coyote
#50882
Have you guys driven some real cars already? :P Muscle cars? Driver 1 - PL are far away from reality. The way cars handle in SF is not the way it is in reality, but it’s just so much closer than all the others. In earlier games, vehicles handled like toys. But not only the handling, but also the suspension and weight of the vehicles was better done in DSF. The suspension is so important if you ask me, I love that in 70s chases when you see the cars leaning on the sides like big fat boats or also if you suddenly hit the brakes, how the car leans forward :) That’s some of the most iconic elements in 70’s chases guys!!

When I said it’s more “Driver” than all the other Driver games, I wasn’t talking about filters, how the game was portrayed or what console could manage what :) Let’s forget all of that for a second.

Let’s just think of: car chases.

DSF did it better than all the others. Tighter streets? As far as I can tell, streets in America are wider than in Europe :P So maybe that’s normal? There were many more destructible objects too, I love all smashing all the stuff and seeing it fly through the air. It’s just so cool :D

Also then of course the action between cars themselves. Hit a car on the back and it will act like it should. Try that in earlier Driver games and most of the time, weird things will happen.

I’m not thinking of Tanner or the story or the mood right now. Really just the car chases, that’s why I said it’s more “Driver” than the other ones, because for me that’s what Driver is about, not necessarily about the story or the atmosphere. I mean, that too of course, but chases are at the first place. If that’s well done, then the rest is not that important.
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By Fireboyd78
#50884
DRIV3R has some pretty damn good handling. The only problem with it is the fact it's plagued by serious bugs that were never fixed. If DRIV3R wasn't rushed due to Atari imposing strict time limits upon Reflections, it could've very well been a GTA killer, if not that, a damn notable opponent in the free-roam game world. Unfortunately, history cannot be rewritten, and DRIV3R was doomed to gaming hell.

And to say that Driver 1 - PL were far from reality...that's just it. The Driver games are not meant to recreate reality, but rather a Hollywood car chase movie. Are movies realistic? No. Are the Driver games realistic? No.

I'm going to just flat-out say that DSF was a bad game. I don't like it very much. Only to try and mod it, of course, but it has no replay value. Why is DRIV3R better off than DSF? Probably because it was the last game to feature the real Tanner, not some Tanner-as-imagined-by-college-students.
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By TheEngiGuy
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#50885
Driver SF has indeed nice driving physics and good car chases... But I really, really don't like the car crashes and the repetitive damage models, not to mention the car physics are too rigid. Also the film director is so limited, I thought it was going to be more advanced like in GTA IV, but it's more limited than in Driver 1 honestly.
Also, damn, the cops are ALWAYS faster than you, no matter what car you use and if you use turbo or not. And the fact that the traffic has each car going at the same speed and the city doesn't look that "living" because of the civilians only walking in a straight line (sometimes going through roads).

DSF could have been a real gem of the 70's-style chases without those issues (Don't get me wrong, I like DSF very much and I still play it after beating the storyline 3 times, it's a VERY original racing game and not much repetitive).

The only realistic chases of the Driver series are the survival modes of Driv3r... yes, you got it. If you dodge police trying to ram you and keep going, it's addictive. And the cops don't do that thing where they follow your very path and go at the same speed as you. Same with DPL with the police dodging dense traffic too bad it doesn't have film director.
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By Coyote
#50886
CarLuver69 wrote:DRIV3R has some pretty damn good handling. The only problem with it is the fact it's plagued by serious bugs that were never fixed. If DRIV3R wasn't rushed due to Atari imposing strict time limits upon Reflections, it could've very well been a GTA killer, if not that, a damn notable opponent in the free-roam game world. Unfortunately, history cannot be rewritten, and DRIV3R was doomed to gaming hell.

And to say that Driver 1 - PL were far from reality...that's just it. The Driver games are not meant to recreate reality, but rather a Hollywood car chase movie. Are movies realistic? No. Are the Driver games realistic? No.

I'm going to just flat-out say that DSF was a bad game. I don't like it very much. Only to try and mod it, of course, but it has no replay value. Why is DRIV3R better off than DSF? Probably because it was the last game to feature the real Tanner, not some Tanner-as-imagined-by-college-students.
No, the handling in Driver 3 is terrible. I remember playing it a year ago or so after I had been playing DSF already for a year. You take a jump and the vehicles feel like they don’t have any weight at all, they stay in the air for way too long. And I don’t know why, but every vehicle feels the same. Of course a truck is heavier than a taxi, and a van doesn’t drive like a sports car. But something to them feels very similar, I’m unsure what. It’s as if there was one default car and all other cars would be based on that. As if Reflections had a tool made just for this, where they would select the weight of the vehicle, the power, and so on. And it’s all being automatically done. And the result is, yes, that a truck will be heavier than a taxi, but the vehicles still feel similar.

In Driver SF I feel like all vehicles have been done with much more detail. A sports car with rear engine will be heavier at the back because that’s where the engine is. Is that the case in Driver 3? No…
Then you’ve got all wheel drives, front wheel drives, rear wheel drives…

The movies I was thinking of are very much realistic. Why? Because they’re reality… I wasn’t talking about CGI movies. I was talking about movies that feature real car chases, cars that have been driven by real stuntmen. It’s can be more real then this, because obviously what’s seen in the movie is reality.

The cars in Driver 1 - PL don’t drive like muscle cars. Especially in DPL, which was a horror. Cars that stick way too much to the road, all vehicles brake instantly, no suspension work, nothing… Driver 3 was a bit better at this point. Driver 1 and 2 were nice obviously — I love these games — but the cars feel nothing like muscle cars / 70s cars.

If Driver SF has a replay value or not, I guess that’s subjective… I still play it every day and the game’s been out for 2 years now. I rarely play the solo mode of course. I’m playing online all the time, which kind of makes more sense to me. It’s the difference between playing alone and having nothing to do in a game, and playing online with friends and also strangers with different action every day.

A solo mode is only funny as long as there’s something to do. The solo mode in DSF for me is the story mode. Obviously I don’t play the story every day. I play it perhaps a few times a year. Else I wouldn’t know what to do all alone in the solo mode. Of course, at this point, Driver 3 had more ti give in the solo mode. But not enough to compete with SF in my opinion, because even Driver 3 gets boring at some point. I’m not talking about modding or anything, just about pure gameplay. SF is interesting because it has the online mode, that’s why I’ve been playing it for so long. Else I wouldn’t be playing it every day either…

That Driver 3 is better than SF is subjective too, but I think the numbers speak for themselves ;) And the reviews too… Driver 3: “Worst Driver game ever”, said by every one. Driver SF “Best Driver game since the last millennium”, said by every one.

Now, what “could have been” is a different story. Lots of things could have been, but what counts in the end is what IS. :) Of course DSF could have been better.

And as for Tanner… that won’t make me play the game more than if there was no Tanner at all. I don’t care about imaginary heroes :) I care about playing with friends and other people from the planet. About the gameplay itself. The chases, the action, the goosebumps I get in multiplayer… I think that’s the most important here. Not sure why everyone’s so fixed on Tanner, Tanner isn’t real, you do know this guys, right? :D
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By Steerclear
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#50889
'John' seems to suit Tanner pretty well I think. Jericho and Jones call him Tanner a number of times in SF. It's just the other characters who don't , but they're just people who don't really know him.

I like the handling in SF, cars that the player drivers are much more slidey than compared to the AI. They really need to sort out their AI, I genuinely think that the only reason we got given boost in the game was because the AI seemed to boost their cars too, yet they can slow down and easily go round corners, then the player can. Not all the time, but it does happen a lot.

I don't think you can compare handling from SF to older Driver's. They seemed good back then and that's all that matters.
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By 0takumetalhead
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#50890
Meeh, I'll stick with D1, which wasn't a walk in the park unlike DSF. D1 at least had it's difficulty done right (with the exception of "Presidents Run"), I steamrolled somewhat everything in DSF and couldn't be bothered with new game+ while I have multiple playthroughs done in D1 AND actually having fun with The Interview, it actually became one of my fave missions in the whole series.

Anyway DSF was fun for the 20/30 hours I've put in it, but I have to agree with CL here: DSF has zero replay value.
And as I said before John's personality shift is just grating to the point of not reognising the badass he was in the first 3 games.
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By emmetmcl
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#50892
To be honest, I was quite disappointed that his name was revealed as John.

I always assumed his first name was Tanner, so never really thought there was a need to reveal his name. I did for a few years think it was Tanner Maverick though, before realising there was a comma on the back of the Driv3r box seperating the two words.

John to me seems too plain, I'd have preferred something a bit less common. Also, I'm glad it wasn't Bruce anyway. (Thats a gay name lol).

As with Charles Jericho, I didn't think that suited either, Charles seems more like a lawyer or a banker than a criminal to me.
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By Coyote
#50895
Well, I’ll say it again, replay value is subjective… :P I don’t really see the point playing a game alone, that’s quite primitive actually. And the more you play it alone, the more sad it gets in my eyes.

I also don’t care about the cop AI’s if they were well done or not. Who cares at all actually? As if someone really spent their time playing solo chases all the time apart of 2 or 3 people :lol: What I care is if the cop players I play against in multiplayer are good or not, if they suck then it’s a bad match and not fun. That’s what counts! That’s also why multiplayer is the future.

Human > Machine
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By TheEngiGuy
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#50896
Coyote wrote:Well, I’ll say it again, replay value is subjective… :P I don’t really see the point playing a game alone, that’s quite primitive actually. And the more you play it alone, the more sad it gets in my eyes.

I also don’t care about the cop AI’s if they were well done or not. Who cares at all actually? As if someone really spent their time playing solo chases all the time apart of 2 or 3 people :lol: What I care is if the cop players I play against in multiplayer are good or not, if they suck then it’s a bad match and not fun. That’s what counts! That’s also why multiplayer is the future.

Human > Machine
Game developers should still not forget about the AI.
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By Coyote
#50897
I think the only important AI is the traffic. It’s more or less the only sort of AI you’ll find in multiplayer. I didn’t mind it in DSF, I mean it was good, but of course some players enjoy to stop next to the road and observe how cars don’t change lanes or how at some intersections all lights are green, I’m not sure what exactly the purpose of it is when you’re passing all these lights at full speed and trying to stop a crook in takedown, as if you’d notice that anyway :P

And then arguing how the game isn’t lively because of this, seriously, what the hell? :lol: The game is very lively when you play it, if you don’t play it the way it’s meant to be played (i.e. playing it alone and watching traffic lights) then obviously you might not see it from its best side, in that case you could just watch the DVD case for hours and tell how boring the game is :P Seriously kids…
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By 0takumetalhead
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#50898
Multiplayer isn't everything y'know. A game should be able to stand on it's singleplayer campaign alone unless it's CLEARLY a multiplayer centric game. Doesn't change the fact that the devs did the weirdest things to pull of a consistent framerate of 60, which makes the city rather dull.

If you like DSF, fine but SF in DSF is badly designed, the biggest irony here is that D2 even pulled it off better (Chicago had trams for f**k sake, D1's take on SF did it aswell!).

And not exactly mature, calling someone a kid who gives his own oppinion, you're the one who needs to grow up here.
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By max.thunder
#50900
Coyote wrote:That’s also why multiplayer is the future.
Do you know why I left the game? Because of the lack of support for multiplayer, i tried lots of stuff reading in Ubi forums (firewall, opening ports...) and none of those worked, then i became tired of trying to solve the connection to ubi servers, also because of that i can't unlock new challenges and the mass chase mode.
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By Olanov
#50901
max.thunder wrote:
Coyote wrote:That’s also why multiplayer is the future.
Do you know why I left the game? Because of the lack of support for multiplayer, i tried lots of stuff reading in Ubi forums (firewall, opening ports...) and none of those worked, then i became tired of trying to solve the connection to ubi servers, also because of that i can't unlock new challenges and the mass chase mode.
I can confirm this. At one point I had an issue where the game would freeze accessing online multiplayer (which later fixed on it's own), but at the time I had it, I relied on Ubisoft's support and after two messages (telling me to go through routines like forwarding ports and so forth) they stopped responding. (N)

Also, I simply can't find online games anymore. The only time I see other people than my friends is when I'm already in an open lobby with my friend. Not to mention painting cars with glowing blue and red sh*t looks extremely horrible.

I do love the thrill of the chase online though, and I hope in the future they can expand on it and fix some issues. (And no more glowing cars!)
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By TheEngiGuy
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#50903
Multiplayer is not the future, it existed since many years ago, only now developers tend to use it EXCLUSIVELY just for the excuse of piracy and stuff, thus making the singleplayer way too scripted, monotonous, short with lazy AI. We are going close to next-gen, which can give us some very cool AI systems too. Without singleplayer, we will not have story-based missions/offline matches for those without internet or for those who just want to play on their own.

No one plays Driver SF online anymore :? and if I want to record some chases I HAVE to do them in singleplayer, there is no film director in multiplayer.

Also, I love how Ubisoft worked on DSF in both singleplayer and multiplayer, unlike other games where singleplayer is just monotonous and dull as hell. But I have to admit, Driver SF multiplayer is one of those multiplayer games where you play it for a few hours and you'll stop because it gets repetitive (it's subjective though). I would play it if only Ubisoft supported the game a bit more, but no... Ubisoft is one of those companies where they release their game and then leave it because they have the money already.
Last edited by TheEngiGuy on Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Coyote
#50904
Yeah I hate the glowing cars so much :shock:

I’ve made a video some time ago about it, you can see what it looks like without:
About support, I can’t really comment, I did have a few problems as well at some point because I was trying to install the game on an OS that wasn’t supported. Finally I had to reinstall the old system, install the game, and then only install the new system.

Some of regulars I play with did have problems too. They all immediately became a new serial code, what sucks however is that you have a new username then…

And why I’m saying multiplayer is the future > AI cops will never be as good as a real human playing a cop, and that applies to all other modes too. Since Driver 3 I’ve wished to see multiplayer in a Driver game. Now it’s finally here! I even remember driving around in Miami in the white Firebird, imagining I was playing multiplayer, pretending the cops and “bad guys” were other players. That was really sad, but alright I was 11.

But still, at the time already, I thought if a game doesn’t have a multiplayer, then it’s going to become boring very quickly, except if it’s a game like Fahrenheit or so, I couldn’t imagine a multiplayer in there.

Edit: Saw the new reply, I don’t think multiplayer is an excuse for piracy, a simple online connection would be sufficient. Multiplayer is here because everyone wants multiplayer. And DSF multiplayer is full, I played it until almost 5 AM yesterday and just woke up (2 PM), probably you have the bad connection issue like max.thunder, where it doesn’t let you enter any games because you’ll most likely lag ;)

I agree that it sucks that there’s no film director in multiplayer. I know that there was one because it was said in a german review where they actually even showed it, but apparently it’s not accessible for us. They were in the “Dev Menu” so that’s how they used it I guess.
Of course, THAT would be the ultimate hit. You could do car chases the way they should be, without cops doing random stupid stuff. You could do a whole script for your movie. And you could of course record amazing matches, the most important!
Crazy Copper Frenzy

https://youtu.be/xAE3QsULyB4

https://youtu.be/AxdGf3F0yIg

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